tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post4185213640343101479..comments2024-01-02T08:54:14.406-05:00Comments on Peter Bromberg's UnBlog: PDF – Portable Document Format, my butt!peterbromberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18173639411723574123noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-46087864617560353722009-10-21T11:38:37.685-05:002009-10-21T11:38:37.685-05:00@ Rex
While I am sure you did, i will re-state th...@ Rex<br /><br />While I am sure you did, i will re-state that this PDF is poorly formed, and I will also state that I can provide you with plenty or well formed PDF files that can't be opened in Foxit - like most XFA Forms PDF files.michaelejahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01612159241045672522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-12019828938524561972009-10-21T11:16:59.817-05:002009-10-21T11:16:59.817-05:00I also tried to print the Riaservicesoverview.pdf ...I also tried to print the Riaservicesoverview.pdf file using Adobe Reader 9 and had missing letters. I then downloaded and tried Foxit and it worked perfectly.Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17006149747830011179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-65070513483350978772009-07-02T08:46:10.221-05:002009-07-02T08:46:10.221-05:00Hmm,
Microsoft isn't allways so friendly. ...Hmm, <br /><br /> Microsoft isn't allways so friendly. Try installing the MVP hosts file, which blocks all the Microsoft ad servers, Whoops! I can't log into my MSDN subscription cause a javascript file from an ad server is not accessable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-25139471777345110482009-05-10T08:27:00.000-05:002009-05-10T08:27:00.000-05:00@Michael, I am glad you're having fun, but as a PD...@Michael, I am glad you're having fun, but as a PDF Evangelist, you appear to be so consumed with your "mission" and expertise that you've been selectively responding to points I've made. It's not just about the PDF format or the "Free" Reader application, its about deceptively packaged software, an issue you have completely ignored.<br /><br />In point of fact, I downloaded Foxit Reader and used it to print out the same document, and there were no missing letters at all. Missing letters only occurred using the free Adobe Reader.peterbromberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173639411723574123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-8056783270122959572009-05-10T07:00:00.000-05:002009-05-10T07:00:00.000-05:00Peter,
Oh Please ! - You write "The W3C does this...Peter,<br /><br />Oh Please ! - You write "The W3C does this with HTML and XML." - So, following that logic, any and all HTML web pages will display flawlessly in any and all browsers ? I have been working with PDF since it was just P - PostScript. I guess you will just have to trust me when I say "Sometimes, developers of wildly popular applications fail to build drivers and PDF Libraries that create perfect output 100% of the time." Which is exactly what happened here. I was simply trying to point out that while you are ranting at Adobe, perhaps you were not familiar with the idea that a file format could be written so poorly that even Adobe Reader could not display or print it properly. This is like blaming your stove for burning your eggs. Sometimes it is a poorly set up system or a poorly set up operating system - sometimes it is the authoring application and often it is either elements that were placed in that document, or the drivers, or the PDF Library - but WHAT YOU RANTED ABOUT is CERTAINLY not the fault of something lacking in the PDF file format specifcation and most likely not a problem with Adobe Acrobat Reader. This is a bad PDF. I have worked with PDF software developers since 1996, and have made a few thousand bad PDF files myself, so I think I might be qualified to suggest that maybe - just this one time - you should not be blaming Adobe here. Google "PDF Evangelist" - now you know why I am bothering to help you mend your sinning blasphomy, my son ! LOL - have a great day, this was fun.michaelejahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01612159241045672522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-51859134101800533052009-05-09T20:27:00.000-05:002009-05-09T20:27:00.000-05:00@Michael, most people do not own Adobe Acrobat, th...@Michael, most people do not own Adobe Acrobat, they only have the free Adobe Reader application.<br />It may very well be true that Adobe has no real control over what people do in creating PDF files. If I were a vendor of some open format, I'd provide people who write these "gadgets", as you call them, with a built-in validation API that would enable them to confirm that the product they are producing actually meets accepted standards. The W3C does this with HTML and XML. I'm not sure if Adobe is doing this. If they are, then the people at Microsoft have an obligation to ensure that the "gadget" they are using complies.peterbromberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173639411723574123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-55093781085212953112009-05-09T19:33:00.000-05:002009-05-09T19:33:00.000-05:00Hi Peter,
The reason I know that the PDF files wa...Hi Peter,<br /><br />The reason I know that the PDF files was made by Microsoft is by opening the PDF file in Acrobat, then, under the file menu, I selected Properties.<br /><br />I guess I have failed to convince you that since Adobe really had no control over the integrity of how this PDF file is written, that they remain blameless here. To make statements like "I don't like the PDF Format" indicates to me that perhaps we are done here. Sorry to have tried to help. Have a great week, and I hope you future is PDF free somehow.michaelejahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01612159241045672522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-28625512255285743012009-05-09T18:19:00.000-05:002009-05-09T18:19:00.000-05:00@Michael, How do you "know" the source was "Micros...@Michael, How do you "know" the source was "Microsoft's PDF making gadget"? They could have been using any "PDF making gadget". I do not like the PDF format, I believe it has been abused, and that there is little control available to ensure file integrity anymore. Their reader has become huge and bloated, and is delivered with software that has nothing to do with reading, displaying and printing PDF files.peterbromberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173639411723574123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-18253343306630988212009-05-09T18:16:00.000-05:002009-05-09T18:16:00.000-05:00Yes. You are right.
1. Adobe consumes blocks all t...Yes. You are right.<br />1. Adobe consumes blocks all the resources available on the computer.<br />2. If the document needs special fonts installed, Adobe Reader opens a popunder window (modal) and you would not be able to minimize. This happens majority of the times. <br />3. Adobe Reader takes a whole lot of time to load a bunch of crap before you are able to read the document. They improvised it recently, but not that much.<br />4. If you have adobe photo downloader, I suggest you to uninstall it, because you would not be able to cancel it until it reads all of the device that is connected to. This wont leave printers also and if you have a Windows Mobile phone or iPhone, good luck with this Adobe Photo Downloader, because a lot of times it would clash with ActiveSync/Device center and iTunes.<br />4. You could use alternative readers, which are lightweight and faster, but majority of documents need the Signature "Adobe" and you would not be able to read that document properly without having Adobe.<br /><br />--Ram--Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346000002534207284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-30984672692913860632009-05-09T17:39:00.000-05:002009-05-09T17:39:00.000-05:00The "source" of this bad PDF was Microsoft PDF mak...The "source" of this bad PDF was Microsoft PDF making gadget. In your blog post, you spend a great deal of time complaining about Adobe, where Adobe at least provided a method for you to open and print this faulty PDF file. All I was suggesting is that perhaps the post should have been spent cursing Microsoft. This has nothing to do with the file format - I can send you a poorly formed JPEG file or TIFF file as well. Just because PDF is an ISO standard does not make it immune to making bad ones. Sorry to hear you had so many troubles - http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/l6vRFnaRH48qg1mE7Y5XdQ?feat=directlinkmichaelejahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01612159241045672522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-27444786035278743232009-05-09T16:15:00.000-05:002009-05-09T16:15:00.000-05:00@Michael, Your comments are well - taken. However,...@Michael, Your comments are well - taken. However, the very fact that it is so easy to create a "bad" PDF file indicates that there are still problems at the source. My post was less concentrated on whether PDF is a "bad" format, rather how it has become bloated and misused, including the Reader application and what is bundled with it. RTF works fine. What Microsoft is guilty of is not knowing better.peterbromberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173639411723574123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-3540621537941935692009-05-09T15:58:00.000-05:002009-05-09T15:58:00.000-05:00I downloaded and examined the PDF file you mention...I downloaded and examined the PDF file you mention in you blog post - "riaservicesoverviewpreview.pdf" - This PDF file was created from Microsoft Word 2007. I found several structural problems with this PDF that - to me - might explain why it does not 'behave' - I am bothering to comment here so that you might consider that PDF as a file format specification is fine, but some applications do make poorly formed PDF files. Adobe has created a viewing application that gracefully repairs or bypasses many problem objects routinely - so, before I would be bashing Adobe and Reader here, you might consider bashing Microsoft for - perhaps - not making a well behaved PDF file.michaelejahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01612159241045672522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-13849374362826036292009-05-09T15:32:00.000-05:002009-05-09T15:32:00.000-05:00@Mike I have used Foxit Reader and it is great. T...@Mike I have used Foxit Reader and it is great. The problem is that some sites require Adobe Reader and with Foxit they do not detect it.peterbromberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173639411723574123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-187537335214621192009-05-09T15:26:00.000-05:002009-05-09T15:26:00.000-05:00Dude just download Foxit and uninstall adobeDude just download Foxit and uninstall adobeopiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394166143691487494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5430866.post-90354783295540744832009-05-09T07:21:00.000-05:002009-05-09T07:21:00.000-05:00I've "hated" the PDF format for a looonng time. ...I've "hated" the PDF format for a looonng time. It's intent was to be able to transfer/preview printer specific documents -- things that had to look exactly as laid out in design as on a printer.<br /><br />Using them as a 'anyone can read them' document sucks. The file format itself is bloated, let alone (at least) Adobe's reader.<br /><br />I've also found that out of the myriad of people who create PDFs, a huge portion of them do it wrong: in your case not properly embedding (subsetting) a font so that the file you got goes against <B>the whole point of PDF in the first place</B>.<br /><br />I agree that for stuff like that, including an RTF document is a better choice -- I don't know if XPS documents are readable on Mac/Linux ... but really people ... if you aren't releasing something printer critical, stop using PDF.<br /><br />It's even worse when you have people who assume that PDFs are 'easily editable' or parseable, too ... but that's a whole other problem. :-PAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com